LG,let me highlight for you how colored is the lens through which you see everything .... please re-read my message and point out to me exactly where I was injecting Democrat bashing? There is no mention of parties, only that the House of Representatives is acting like a banana republic. Your knee-jerk response "Republicans are acting just as badly as Democrats!" is pretty funny, really.
But more to the point is that far more than "how most Americans were totally ignorant of the excesses of Wall Street until these bailouts" is how ignorant this administration - primarily - and the entire government on both sides - a close second - continues to be ignorant of almost everything concerning this entire mess. These bonuses (and I'm no friend of these fat ass corp execs) were contracted almost a year ago, and were INCLUDED IN THE STIMULUS BILL THAT YOUR MAN BARACK VOTED FOR LAST FALL, and the checks were sent out AFTER the current administration released yet another $30billion to AIG. So it's a little disingenuous for Obama to now be outraged at these bonuses (maybe the lesson here is that politicians of all persuasions should actually read and know what the flaming hell they're proposing/voting for) - and also disingenuous for these politicians (Reps and Dems) to be screaming foul (for example, I don't hear Senator Dodd offering to give back the $170,000 that AIG filled his campaign coffers with recently. If there are Reps that have been the recipient of significant AIG campaign donations, then that goes for them too).
Thirdly, I know you're a skilled debater and argument weaver, but you're being a little lazy/sloppy here, and also inappropriate I think. A flippant throw away line is not only inadequate, it's out of place. I sent this to about 20 AMERICANS, both Reps and Dems. The ramifications of whether AIG execs are offensive, the bonuses are offensive, and that Tim Geithner is incompetant are of no lasting consequence - as isn't Franklin Raines making $90million off of bonuses by Fannie Mae in 6 years, while he and Fannie did the lion's share of getting us into this mess (the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on).
But the precedent of a body of Congress (having voted on and passed the bill that allowed the bonuses) now targeting a very specific group of American workers who have committed no crimes through a 'special specific vindictive usurious tax' has HUGE potential minefields for all kinds of things, most notably the impact on future Freedom of Speech. Think about it LG, as a practical matter (forget about the ethical side of the question, for which the partisan lens won't allow a super-rosa discussion) do you think that Democrats are going to hold the White House and both houses of Congress forever? Even for the rest of your lifetime? Do you really want this kind of precedent put in place if that leverage is then going to be applied in the future by a Republican Congress and/or White House? My God - the government of the United States of America is populated by a frightening number of people of completely unsatisfactory capabilities and brainpower. THINK.
Finally, 'this' isn't supposed to be a democracy (thank God!). It's supposed to be a Republic (though probably not really in practice anymore), and the Founding Fathers were very very focused on making sure that it was a Republic, to prevent exactly this kind of populism rule - which this government certainly now is.
No need to respond. I'm not going to spend this year trying to out-sing Pavarotti or out-screech monkeys or out-yowl cats (pick your preferred metaphor). But there are bigger issues here that warrant more serious thought than everyone trying to out-sound bite someone else on every issue that comes up - some things should transcend Jon Stewart and his little sniffing-lip barbs.
Best Regards,
lks
At 03:01 PM 3/19/2009, you wrote:
Gotta say, though Larry, Republicans are jumping on the populist "Off with their heads" bandwagon with equal fervor as Democrats. And the likes of Grassley will only be satisfied with the actual heads of these executives.
What is amazing to me is how most Americans were totally ignorant of the excesses of Wall Street until these bailouts. Not to worry, though, the populace doesn't rule this democracy - never has, probably never will.
Subject
targeted taxation will pave the road for the loss of Freedom of Speech
House slaps tax on AIG pay
Responding to outrage over AIG payouts, House approves bill that would impose 90% tax on those bonuses.
*******************************************
Guys, this is "targeted taxation" ... it's what third world dictators do. Our country is being run like a banana republic. An average 8th grader could look at this and have his blood run cold.
Once this precedent is set (the govt using the IRS to target individuals it doesn't like), how quickly will Freedome of Speech fall?
But more to the point is that far more than "how most Americans were totally ignorant of the excesses of Wall Street until these bailouts" is how ignorant this administration - primarily - and the entire government on both sides - a close second - continues to be ignorant of almost everything concerning this entire mess. These bonuses (and I'm no friend of these fat ass corp execs) were contracted almost a year ago, and were INCLUDED IN THE STIMULUS BILL THAT YOUR MAN BARACK VOTED FOR LAST FALL, and the checks were sent out AFTER the current administration released yet another $30billion to AIG. So it's a little disingenuous for Obama to now be outraged at these bonuses (maybe the lesson here is that politicians of all persuasions should actually read and know what the flaming hell they're proposing/voting for) - and also disingenuous for these politicians (Reps and Dems) to be screaming foul (for example, I don't hear Senator Dodd offering to give back the $170,000 that AIG filled his campaign coffers with recently. If there are Reps that have been the recipient of significant AIG campaign donations, then that goes for them too).
Thirdly, I know you're a skilled debater and argument weaver, but you're being a little lazy/sloppy here, and also inappropriate I think. A flippant throw away line is not only inadequate, it's out of place. I sent this to about 20 AMERICANS, both Reps and Dems. The ramifications of whether AIG execs are offensive, the bonuses are offensive, and that Tim Geithner is incompetant are of no lasting consequence - as isn't Franklin Raines making $90million off of bonuses by Fannie Mae in 6 years, while he and Fannie did the lion's share of getting us into this mess (the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on).
But the precedent of a body of Congress (having voted on and passed the bill that allowed the bonuses) now targeting a very specific group of American workers who have committed no crimes through a 'special specific vindictive usurious tax' has HUGE potential minefields for all kinds of things, most notably the impact on future Freedom of Speech. Think about it LG, as a practical matter (forget about the ethical side of the question, for which the partisan lens won't allow a super-rosa discussion) do you think that Democrats are going to hold the White House and both houses of Congress forever? Even for the rest of your lifetime? Do you really want this kind of precedent put in place if that leverage is then going to be applied in the future by a Republican Congress and/or White House? My God - the government of the United States of America is populated by a frightening number of people of completely unsatisfactory capabilities and brainpower. THINK.
Finally, 'this' isn't supposed to be a democracy (thank God!). It's supposed to be a Republic (though probably not really in practice anymore), and the Founding Fathers were very very focused on making sure that it was a Republic, to prevent exactly this kind of populism rule - which this government certainly now is.
No need to respond. I'm not going to spend this year trying to out-sing Pavarotti or out-screech monkeys or out-yowl cats (pick your preferred metaphor). But there are bigger issues here that warrant more serious thought than everyone trying to out-sound bite someone else on every issue that comes up - some things should transcend Jon Stewart and his little sniffing-lip barbs.
Best Regards,
lks
At 03:01 PM 3/19/2009, you wrote:
Gotta say, though Larry, Republicans are jumping on the populist "Off with their heads" bandwagon with equal fervor as Democrats. And the likes of Grassley will only be satisfied with the actual heads of these executives.
What is amazing to me is how most Americans were totally ignorant of the excesses of Wall Street until these bailouts. Not to worry, though, the populace doesn't rule this democracy - never has, probably never will.
Subject
targeted taxation will pave the road for the loss of Freedom of Speech
House slaps tax on AIG pay
Responding to outrage over AIG payouts, House approves bill that would impose 90% tax on those bonuses.
*******************************************
Guys, this is "targeted taxation" ... it's what third world dictators do. Our country is being run like a banana republic. An average 8th grader could look at this and have his blood run cold.
Once this precedent is set (the govt using the IRS to target individuals it doesn't like), how quickly will Freedome of Speech fall?
posted by Lawrence 3X at 11:29 PM
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